ace-azaelia:
Okay, entirely putting aside my own personal opinion on asexuality and whether it’s a queer identity and how big the queer umbrella is/should be and whether passing privilege has as much effect as certain people are arguing it does…
I’m seeing logic circles in this argument, going like such:
-Asexuals are not queer
-Therefore the ostracism and marginalisation they face is not queer
-This ostracism and marginalisation they face isn’t queer because they’re not queer
-They are not queer because the issues they face aren’t queer issues
-The issues they face aren’t queer issues because they’re not queer
-They’re not queer because…
(ad nauseum)
At least, I haven’t seen an argument as to why asexuals aren’t queer that doesn’t either start playing oppression olympics or say it’s because the issues they face aren’t queer (and starting the loop). Maybe passing privilege is brought up, but that argument discredits the fact that a lot of the time, the passing privilege is due to invisibility and erasure, and does a lot of damage internally for the damage it supposedly spares externally.
And as long as the one side is stuck in a logic loop, nothing the other side says is going to get through. And as long as both sides are speaking from a place of pain, neither side will be able to step back and say “oh, this is a better way to get the point across.”
And I don’t know how to fix these problems outside of a miraculous epiphany.
(This is why I’ve kind of been staying out of the argument these past few rounds, because I don’t have anything to say that I haven’t already said and from what I’ve seen what I have to say won’t be accepted anyway)
listen, you deliberately obtuse, disingenuous brat. I’m going to explain this once more for you in the simplest terms I can imagine.
queer as a pejorative term has historically been used against people who experience romantic or sexual attraction to the same gender. it still is today. it is the verbal essence of the hate, disgust, and derision that straight people and homophobic society feels about us.
in recent history, those it has been used against have begun the hard work of reclaiming that word. reclamation of “queer” is the empowering process through which we take control of a word that has been used to hurt us and to turn us into queers rather than human beings. this process is not complete. people still use these words against us. in the mildest cases, angry men scream QUEERS out their car doors as we walk from parking to the gay club that is celebrating pride that very night, all because two women were holding hands. in the most severe cases, the psychological violence of that word is backed up by physical violence. there are still many people who wince when they hear “queer” and would rather not make it part of their identity. and even those of us who do use that word to describe ourselves do it gingerly, conscious of the ways in which that single syllable can suddenly turn poisonous in the mouths of even the most “progressive” straights.
and then suddenly, a group of people who does not share this history and this present with us come clamoring in, demanding that they count as queer because a few academics who were horribly disconnected from the “real world” decided to change the definition to “not normal.” these people - hetero- or aromantic asexuals, in this case - have never and will never experience the oppression that is inextricably linked to this word. in fact, they carry with them the privilege of being able to choose ”queer” - to want ”queer,” even - while those of us who actually are queer had it shoved on us by a society that refuses to see us as anything more than queers and hates us for it.
the logic isn’t circular. it’s simple. “queer” has always been a slur aimed at us, people who are somehow attracted to the same gender. and so it is our word and no one else’s, just as it is our pain and no one else’s.
subtlefire:
ace-azaelia:
Okay, entirely putting aside my own personal opinion on asexuality and whether it’s a queer identity and how big the queer umbrella is/should be and whether passing privilege has as much effect as certain people are arguing it does…
I’m seeing logic circles in this argument, going like such:
-Asexuals are not queer
-Therefore the ostracism and marginalisation they face is not queer
-This ostracism and marginalisation they face isn’t queer because they’re not queer
-They are not queer because the issues they face aren’t queer issues
-The issues they face aren’t queer issues because they’re not queer
-They’re not queer because…
(ad nauseum)
At least, I haven’t seen an argument as to why asexuals aren’t queer that doesn’t either start playing oppression olympics or say it’s because the issues they face aren’t queer (and starting the loop). Maybe passing privilege is brought up, but that argument discredits the fact that a lot of the time, the passing privilege is due to invisibility and erasure, and does a lot of damage internally for the damage it supposedly spares externally.
And as long as the one side is stuck in a logic loop, nothing the other side says is going to get through. And as long as both sides are speaking from a place of pain, neither side will be able to step back and say “oh, this is a better way to get the point across.”
And I don’t know how to fix these problems outside of a miraculous epiphany.
(This is why I’ve kind of been staying out of the argument these past few rounds, because I don’t have anything to say that I haven’t already said and from what I’ve seen what I have to say won’t be accepted anyway)
Emphasis mine. Will the real Spock please step up and enforce some logic out of all this emotion?
ah, yes. the old dichotomy between the overemotional queers and the very rational, obviously objective outsiders (straight people).
how original of you.
btw, the logic has been enforced. here.
oh, and just fyi, despite what star trek may have taught you, emotion and logic are not mutually exclusive.
(via sirperceval)
subtlefire:
Straight = heterosexual = sexually attracted to the “opposite” gender
Not heterosexual = not straight
Aromantic heterosexual = sexually attracted to the “opposite” gender = heterosexual = straight
Aromantic a/bi/pan/homosexual = not sexually attracted to the “opposite” gender = not heterosexual = not straight
[*romantic] asexual = does not experience sexual attraction to any gender = does not experience attraction to “opposite” gender = not straight
more like:
straight = attracted exclusively to the “opposite” gender
not-straight = not attracted exclusively to the “opposite” gender
p.s. “straight” is a slang term that originated in the queer community to refer to people who got with people of the “opposite” sex so we’ll decide what it means, condescending asshole.
(Source: sirperceval)
ace-reporter:
While I suspect Ace Slut Shamers is the same person who is behind two other offensive memes, I’m not entirely sure of this one. However, I do have proof that the Privilege Denying Asexual and Homophobic Ace are the same person. Ace Slut Shamaer’s writing style is different, but the Privilege…
we’re going to need caps of the IPs, bro. be a good reporter and show some evidence. C:
also, way to continue using “he,” misogynist
ace-reporter:
actuallyqueer:
ace-reporter:
While I suspect Ace Slut Shamers is the same person who is behind two other offensive memes, I’m not entirely sure of this one. However, I do have proof that the Privilege Denying Asexual and Homophobic Ace are the same person. Ace Slut Shamaer’s writing style is different, but the Privilege…
Are you even kidding right now. She is female. She told you she is female. Stop calling her ‘he’, bro.
Thanks for revealing all your sock puppet accounts, Homobophoibc Ace. Do you even think about what you are doing?
where are those screencaps, bro?
strudelcuddy:
cynicaljim:
Even though I’ve participated in The Day of Silence for three years even when no one else would.
Even though my best friend of four years is a lesbian.
Even though I tried my hardest to get a LBTQ group going on at my school.
Even though I stood up to assholes harassing and threatening my LGBTQ friends at school.
Even though I stood up to my homophobic grandfather.
I’M SO TOTALLY HOMOPHOBIC AND WHINY AND PRETENTIOUS BECAUSE YOUR BLOG IS OFFENSIVE TO MY SEXUALITY.
you actually pulled out the “I have gay friends!” card
nothing you do in support of queer people or against homophobia should be so that you can get “anti-homophobe” points to whip out when someone says you are doing something homophobic or are a homophobe
and frankly, that you feel the need to list all of your oh-so-magnanimous contributions to our campaign to be treated as human beings when someone says a lot of asexual people on tumblr are being homophobic suggests that you are homophobic.
(via darling-wendy)
iphysianthe:
atroxalae:
wrong, wrong, and wrong
can somebody take this one on I do not have the energy
yeah it’s not like they’ve got little to no representation in the media or anything
it’s not like if someone on a tv show/in a book/whatever says “i just don’t feel sexual attraction” everyone assumes there’s something wrong with them
it’s not like if you tell your doctor that you don’t feel sexual attraction they’ll assume that you have some kind of mental or physical problem preventing you from being “normal”
naw, none of that shit happens.
the fact is that anyone who isn’t heterosexual is treated as other and weird and abnormal and straying from the default setting. and if asexuals want to call themselves queer then they’re allowed?
ugh
that isn’t oppression. erasure is not oppression. erasure can be a facet of oppression, when the dominant culture uses it to erase the possibility of an identity, restrict the way that identity is presented so that our cultural idea of that identity is narrow and negative, and/or to cut off members of an identity from the rest of their “people” in order to foster isolation and the negative psychological impacts that creates. but erasure is a symptom of oppression, not a sure sign.
furthermore, doctors who do make that assumption are working off of sexist ideas of how heterosexual sex should work. or they are genuinely concerned for someone’s health, because there are medical problems that result in a lack of sex drive that one should at least consider screening oneself for just in case. and most good doctors will not fix something that isn’t broken - the psychological disorder you’re probably alluding to even requires distress for the diagnosis.
and no, only asexuals who experience same sex attraction are allowed. because that is the definition of queerness. and it is not bigoted for queer people to set boundaries to protect ourselves from people who benefit from straight privilege (as in, everyone who doesn’t experience same sex attraction)
try again. C:
(Source: partysoft)
raumlet:
partysoft:
raumlet:
The very fact that you can claim there is no such thing as sexual privilege implies to me that you are one who partakes of it regularly, so please, gtfo and do not darken the asexual tag’s doorstep again. I’m not even going to get into the queer debate…
history defined queer. I just didn’t try to divorce it from that history like you all.
also, yeah, straight people’s opinions don’t count. have a nice night! C:
and how dare you call protecting my identity from co-opting by straight people whose privilege hurts me every day - especially when they’re all up in my safe spaces, making them not so safe - juvenile?
(via )
raumlet:
partysoft:
iphysianthe:
atroxalae:
that isn’t oppression. erasure is not oppression. erasure can be a facet of oppression, when the dominant culture uses it to erase the possibility of an identity, restrict the way that identity is presented so that our cultural idea of that identity is narrow and negative, and/or to cut off members of an identity from the rest of their “people” in order to foster isolation and the negative psychological impacts that creates. but erasure is a symptom of oppression, not a sure sign.
furthermore, doctors who do make that assumption are working off of sexist ideas of how heterosexual sex should work. or they are genuinely concerned for someone’s health, because there are medical problems that result in a lack of sex drive that one should at least consider screening oneself for just in case. and most good doctors will not fix something that isn’t broken - the psychological disorder you’re probably alluding to even requires distress for the diagnosis.
and no, only asexuals who experience same sex attraction are allowed. because that is the definition of queerness. and it is not bigoted for queer people to set boundaries to protect ourselves from people who benefit from straight privilege (as in, everyone who doesn’t experience same sex attraction)
try again. C:
hey you guys queerness is only sexual attraction
trans erasure, trans erasure
I am basically doing this to bother you now, but really, trans erasure, you fuckass. If you’re going to be an asshole to one group of people, try not to be an asshole to the group you’re trying to “defend” at the same time.
not all trans people identify as queer just by virtue of being trans, and so as a cis person I try to avoid non-consensually sticking them with that label.
